Two Become Family: Restoring Confidence in Catholic Marriage and Family life
Renzo and Monica share stories, advice, and encouragement for everyday Catholics navigating the human side of a faith-filled marriage. They both bring a voice of joyful solidarity from their experience living in the trenches with a growing family. Their honesty and wisdom offer hope to couples who want to find confidence in their vocation to marriage through a candid and faithful discussion.
Renzo and Monica Ortega are Catholic ministry leaders, podcast hosts, authors, and national speakers. Their latest title, Lovemaking: How to Talk about Sex with Your Spouse was published through Ave Maria Press. They host the popular marriage podcast Two Become Family and speak nationally for the St. John Paul II Foundation’s Together in Holiness conference series.
Their testimonies of faith, marriage, and parenting have been featured by the National Catholic Register, the Knights of Columbus, and Augustine Institute. They are coauthors of the children’s devotional Go to Joseph for Children, and Renzo is also the author of the men’s devotional Go to Joseph: 10 Day Preparation for Consecration to St. Joseph.
Two Become Family: Restoring Confidence in Catholic Marriage and Family life
We're Not Compatible (We Took Jordan Peterson's Personality Assessment)
In today's episode, we see what Jordan Peterson has to say about our compatibility. We took his Understand Myself personality assessment and we go over some of our results and what the implications are for our relationship. We conclude that we wish we had done this while we were still dating. We can't wait to share the results with you, let's jump in!
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The Understand Myself assessment and report is based on the Big Five Aspects Scale, the scientific model that describes your personality through the (Big Five) factors and each of their two aspects.
Journey as a couple this Lent:
BORN OF FIRE By Fr. Innocent Montgomery
UNDONE by Carrie Daunt
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You're listening to To Become Family, a podcast aimed at restoring confidence in marriage and family life. I think you should introduce us today, because-.
Speaker 2:You've got your stick down.
Speaker 1:But what's your stick? Go, you do it.
Speaker 3:Do it, do it, don't think, do it.
Speaker 2:I can't not think. I have to think. Thank you all for joining us.
Speaker 3:This is your I'm trying to say what you would say You're not saying what you would say.
Speaker 2:Thank you all for joining us. I can't do it. I'm so nervous.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to another episode of To Become Family. This is Epidote. This is episode 103. And we're going to talk about our compatibility and all of our compatibility issues In today's episode. The reason I thought of that is because one of our very first episodes that we recorded back when this was pre-kending with the Pope RIP was does compatibility matter? And because that's been downloaded so much, I thought that that might be something people want to hear about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, topic yeah but we're not just going to talk about what we think about our compatibility, but we are specifically going to talk about and reflect on Jordan Peterson's what's the test called? It's like the big five. We took a personality test together and one of the cool things about and it's through Jordan Peterson's website, understandmyselfcom but one of the cool things is that you could take it with your spouse and then you connect the accounts and it kind of gives you a rundown of your relationship and why you're going to get divorced. I'm kidding. It doesn't say that.
Speaker 2:Well it's, but it kind of talks about how your traits complement or butt up against each other. It's the opposite of complement, butt up.
Speaker 1:But no butt up, that's phase three Shit.
Speaker 2:That was bad.
Speaker 1:Was it? They don't even know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Compliment or I don't know what is the opposite Disagree.
Speaker 1:I don't know Insult.
Speaker 3:There we go.
Speaker 1:So what I want to do is go through. So we have to make sure to look up here. You might have to get closer to this mic. We're using this mic inside the other one Because the other one, like whenever we touch the table, you could hear it boom, boom, boom, boom Like a giant walking.
Speaker 2:You're hard to. You're like a bulldog, like you have posture.
Speaker 1:I want a bulldog.
Speaker 2:I know you really do, I should have said it I want a bulldog but.
Speaker 3:But you get yeah.
Speaker 1:So we are going to look at. So, monica, I took this. How long ago? No, I think it was December.
Speaker 2:Probably about a month ago.
Speaker 1:Ok, so a month and a half, it was like December, it was before Christmas.
Speaker 3:Was it.
Speaker 1:No, I don't know, I think so. I thought I saw, like December, something when I was like looking through to see what our results were. Ok, so well. First, on personality tests, I think they can be a good tool to use for your relationship. I don't, I tend to not like them, for the most part because I feel like they try to put you in a particular box of like this is the way you are and because of this, like the one that comes to mind is like the Myers-Briggs one that you find online that says like oh, you're a leprechaun, you're a, you're a Right. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Like it's like A leprechaun.
Speaker 1:No, like they give you like titles, like you're the safe keeper, do you mean?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm the mediator, that was the one like I got like.
Speaker 2:INFJ. Do you know? I don't remember that, I just remember the initials. I thought you were thinking about like enneagrams.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, there's like Because they have. They have leprechauns.
Speaker 2:They have leprechauns and unicorns.
Speaker 1:No, they, I don't know no, the Myers-Briggs one. They have so like for every like letter combination they have like a title for it. So the mediator was one of them. They almost like teacher I'd leprechaun as I was being facetious, but there was like different things for it. I didn't like that one because I felt like when you read through the results it was kind of like putting you in a box and saying like this is the way you are and because you're this way, this is the career paths that you're going to go through that are best for you. These are the.
Speaker 1:It became like very specific and I'm like you don't know me Right, you can't, you can't say that doesn't seem very mediator of you. No, no, those things bother me. And compared to Well and then.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people can use that as like an excuse for well.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:I'm a leprechaun, so of course I can't be a unicorn.
Speaker 1:Right and you keep you whatever you want. This is America. So the. So what I like about the Big Five, which is I'm not Like. I don't really know much about this personality test. I kind of stopped.
Speaker 2:Friends of ours suggested doing it, because they did it and they talked about it.
Speaker 1:It was cool so we did it and I think afterwards, after we're done, reflecting on, like some of it, we're not going to go through all the results but, like some of them, I think couples will be drawn to it Because it's only like $10 to do.
Speaker 2:Together, yeah, together.
Speaker 1:So it's not super expensive, and I think it's worth it, because you kind of Again this personality test compared to other ones. It kind of gives you outlines of why you are the way you are, or that you are the way you are, but then it kind of gives you areas of strength and areas of weakness that you can work on. So like it's tailored in that way of like, if you're weak here, these are things you're going to work on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not like this is the way you are forever, but it's like here's ways that you can try to compensate or work with that. But then I really, like you said, I liked that they then took both of our results and mushed them together and like this is where your relationship could have areas of strength and this is where your relationship might have areas of conflict Because you're in opposite directions on this personality component. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, because I think it's important too in at least like so, maybe at any time in marriage. But I know, early in marriage or before you get married, when you're engaged that's called dating when you're thinking like, am I Neat in one another, Is this the person I want to marry? I do know that compatibility is something that people consider. Oh, sure.
Speaker 1:And I don't know if there's any correct formula of how compatibility works, and I think our test results kind of show that, because you would assume either you are the same for some things or like you have to be the complete opposite for other things. And I just think it's a lot more intricate in that when you put two lives together.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, there's those cliches like opposites attract. I don't know what the cliche is for when you're the same person, but like that yeah, birds of a feather. Birds of a feather, is that it?
Speaker 1:Nope, she said the first thing.
Speaker 2:I just believe you. Gullible is one of my personality traits, apparently.
Speaker 1:No, well, you haven't read all of the things I read.
Speaker 2:I mean I did earlier, but you've highlighted certain ones that you want to. I highlighted once and I was like I'm not highlighting anymore what's going to be the whole thing.
Speaker 1:So we'll jump into it and, yeah, hopefully it's a good conversation. We'll see. So I think we should read some of it and then reflect on it as we do. So the five components of I should remember this. Do you remember the five components of personality?
Speaker 3:Absolutely not, oh good, thing it's not here.
Speaker 1:Ok, let's look that up really quick. Can you hear me Clickety-clack in here? I took that from Gomer. Okay, the big five personality traits are not.
Speaker 2:It's right there.
Speaker 1:Is it? Is that five?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Read it.
Speaker 2:All right. So the big five extraversion agreeableness, openness, conscientiousness and neuroticism.
Speaker 1:Okay, and the ones that we're going to work on or go over today. We're just going to go over to agreeableness and conscientiousness, because I think those are the ones that highlight our differences the most Our incompatibility.
Speaker 2:Well, you would assume.
Speaker 1:I don't know, maybe it is.
Speaker 2:You just like to.
Speaker 1:I just put up with that you just put up with it because you're so agreeable. You can't say no. That's right, we'll analyze. So the first one is agreeableness, and in this personality test itself, it separates agreeableness into two different categories compassion and politeness. So, overall, I want you to read what agreeableness is first, and then we're going to say what our scores were. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Agreeableness is a big five personality trait associated with how people weigh their own interests against those of others. Simply put, agreeableness is how much you pay attention and care about other people's feelings, needs and desires. Agreeable people are kind, nurturing, compliant and trusting. Disagreeable people are competitive, tough, blunt and skeptical.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so Renzo's score for agreeableness is this is percentile. I scored in the 43rd percentile for agreeableness, and Monica scored in the 94th percentile. So you are clearly more agreeable than I am.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, and it's funny because when you first say that you got 43, I was like wow, that's higher than I thought it would be. But I think what I've come to learn about you is you have your opinions and then you have your choices of behavior. So I think you are less agreeable in your mind and opinions, but then you still make choices to be nice.
Speaker 1:Well, no well, so it's interesting. So when you look at our results, like I said, the agreeableness has broken up into compassion and politeness. You and I both scored very high in compassion.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I do love people.
Speaker 2:I do love people. I don't always like them.
Speaker 1:I love people and I take care of people and I do want people's good. I do will good for people. So I think that that's why we're very similar there. But then politeness is where we differ big time, but so just on surface level though, agreeableness. I think this is where it really lays out the differences in how we see the world and how we may behave differently within our relationship, which I think is super interesting. And you tell me if you think this is true or not.
Speaker 2:You've highlighted it in bright yellow. Okay, so this is what.
Speaker 1:So this is the part that I was like oh man, okay, so this is. It's reading it to me, right, because I'm the one that opened the test. So for myself, in terms of behavior, roles and the differences in agreeableness for us, it says you will tend to see your partner as a bit naive, oversympathetic and easily taken advantage of. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for believing the first one. You're not. You're a very intelligent person and you just love people and you're nicer to them than I am, like I.
Speaker 2:But that one you're always warning me of easily taking advantage of you have to assume that they don't mean you're good like that. They're trying to trick you.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, when you're in a dark alley, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Or at the grocery store, a well-lit grocery store.
Speaker 1:Bad product town.
Speaker 2:We don't have one of those in the town we live in.
Speaker 1:No, but like there's yeah, and that's where we're just. We're very different people and this has been such a source of disagreement within our relationship for the last how long have we been together?
Speaker 2:17 years. 17 years yeah.
Speaker 1:Like we've just argued a lot about that of, just like I, the way I was brought up too, because my dad was a police officer. Part of it is that I learned to see the world in a certain way Sure, but also.
Speaker 2:I think In a distrusting way.
Speaker 1:Sure, accurate way. But that's the way I see the world. But then there's also this I do know like in terms of personality, I'm not as agreeable as a person in normal. So like in general, so like if people Not that I always assume the worst of people, but like I Just observing yeah, I always tell my head in question your motives.
Speaker 1:See what your motives are. Interesting fun fact that I remember listening to a long, long old YouTube channel called B-Sauce and they talked about how, like different, like societies that tend to be more distrustful end up becoming less Like they don't, because they don't play well with others and they don't build around. Like neighborhoods and societies don't trust each other, they end up not being able to grow as well and then up dying out because there's distrust. So that's not a good thing. So I've then been like, okay, I'm not going to be always distrustful, or like I'll just learn to jitzy something. Something changes.
Speaker 2:I'm ready you ready, always ready. But I'll pretend to trust you.
Speaker 1:So and this is what it says about you your partner may wish you could be a little less argumentative, self-oriented, more cooperative, more likely to apologize and kinder. I don't think you've ever said any of those things to me.
Speaker 2:Never. I've never asked you to be less argumentative. Why do you have to question everything I say? I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's like a reflex, though it's not something I consciously think of. It's a reflex of like.
Speaker 2:I know I've learned.
Speaker 1:I've learned. You learned to put up with it.
Speaker 2:But I think but it's so funny because we had talked about in the last episode or in earlier episodes, like Ask Culture vs Guest Culture, External Processor vs Internal Processor. So I think some of this even comes from I don't know which came first or like what falls into which category, but I think that you're a bit argumentative because you're also an external processor, so you have this inclination towards disagreeableness.
Speaker 2:And then also you say the first thing that come in and you're an Ask Culture, so you're blunt, so it's just yeah, there's my, that's my opinion, well, and again.
Speaker 1:I like that. This. This just kind of says like this is where your set level is. Like you, this is where your factory settings started Interesting way.
Speaker 2:Now let's see, like, where you could. That's where your factory is.
Speaker 1:Like Buzz Lightyear when he has the.
Speaker 2:Spanish mode.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that's me no, but like this is where your factory levels are, and like you can you can. You can, but like from there like you could grow.
Speaker 2:Like I don't feel stuck in this.
Speaker 1:You can see this and like well, and most people wouldn't, I think, when they've, even when things, if you've said or have heard me describe myself like, they don't think I'm like that and I don't think I am 99% of the time.
Speaker 1:Like I try really hard to to recognize that, like I, I tend to assume the worst and I tend to be very argumentative and I tend to just question for the sake of questioning, which makes me very good in certain settings at work, like if, if we're in a, okay, I'm boring you. If we're, I'll put B roll in there for something during the yawning part.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. I'm like normally on the podcast. I can hide that.
Speaker 1:You can never again. There's cameras, oh, there's cameras everywhere. They all see you.
Speaker 2:I like my eye twitch. I was trying to hold it.
Speaker 1:Like I was saying, though, like being argumentative and having ideas and being willing to like push back is good in certain settings, but not always good in relationships, especially when your spouse is like I really want to do this and I'm just like that's irrational.
Speaker 2:That sounds horrible. Why no? Your favorite question, and it's always depends on tone. But you're like, why would you want to do that? Which could be read as like, why would you want to do that? Or like tell me more, why would you want?
Speaker 3:to do that.
Speaker 2:But usually your tone is like somewhere in the middle. So you're like are you curious or are you judging?
Speaker 1:So this what this says about you is that my partner, my beautiful bride, will be a little more, a little bit more compassionate, caring, empathetic, self-sacrificing and polite than me. Your partner will take somewhat more account of and care for others and will be more concerned with your emotional state than you are of theirs. I care about your emotional state yes, you do. I do. I think that's a learned, that's a learned response, though, but like are you mad at me, did I?
Speaker 1:Are you okay? Like I remember doing that a lot, dating too. Yes, so while we were dating, I wouldn't, yeah, man, because like I wouldn't, I don't feel like it's as intuitive to me again and I don't know why. It's very intuitive to me with other people, especially like social work settings and youth ministry settings. Like I can intuit like they're upset because of this, but, like with our relationship, I feel like there's so many other variables.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like matching clothes Like I. It's raining out. This is not athletic. The bottom's dressy Like. There's just so many variables that I have no clue what I'm doing. Don't laugh so hard on camera, please.
Speaker 2:It's like matching clothes and some people are like why are you talking about?
Speaker 1:That's later in the personality test. It's so hard, but so but, and I remember in our relationship, like I would constantly ask you like are you okay? Yeah, because I wasn't sure if, like, did I say something wrong? Did I bother you? Like, and there's times when you weren't okay and because of your agreeableness, you wouldn't tell me.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:That you were upset so like.
Speaker 3:so I didn't want to start a fight, so my fishing was not unwarranted. Okay.
Speaker 1:But let's see All right Virtues and faults as a couple. So this is what it says about the good things that we have, because we are different in agreeableness, and then the things we need to work on.
Speaker 2:Okay, first paragraph. I think, Okay, you will. Generally, I didn't know if there was a something I didn't.
Speaker 1:I highlighted one time and I was like this is too much.
Speaker 2:Done. You will generally be able to stand up to each other when you disagree, and should both be able to put your put your point forward and to listen well enough so that the negotiating with each other won't be too much of a problem.
Speaker 1:That's accurate right.
Speaker 2:I think we've learned that more and more. But yeah, I would say, yeah, sometimes I would try to run away from a fight, but eventually we would always so marriage does keeps her in the dark.
Speaker 1:I love you. I love you. I'm just joking.
Speaker 2:All right, again, this is your choice. So since Renzo is lower in agreeableness, this may be a bit easier for Renzo than it is for me. You will take turns leading and following, although you will tend to lead a bit more often than you follow.
Speaker 1:Is that accurate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Let's not read this one.
Speaker 2:Why it's intimate. But I think it's kind of no, I think this okay, this is the stuff that nobody talks about, and we said that we would say things like this on our podcast, so I can maybe try to.
Speaker 1:Fine.
Speaker 2:But okay, so this is also part of the couples part. I think this is what makes this personality test unique.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And a conversation starter.
Speaker 3:Fair, fair.
Speaker 2:So I could just read it and then we could not comment on it if you feel it's too intimate.
Speaker 1:Proceed. Okay, I can't not joke.
Speaker 2:In your sex life together, you will be able to ask for. This is you. You will be able to ask for what you need and to seek your own satisfaction, while also serving your partner's needs. Because Renzo's partner is higher in agreeableness, that's me, he or she.
Speaker 1:Okay, no what Read that again we're clearly seven years old.
Speaker 2:Because Monica is higher in an agreeableness, she may have trouble advocating on her own behalf. She may be tempted to lie about her satisfaction or to fake enjoyment.
Speaker 3:Never, but your partner Never.
Speaker 2:Why Not necessarily Unnecessary?
Speaker 1:Especially buzz light, your Spanish mode Unnecessary. Continue. This is not pertain to anybody.
Speaker 2:You should both do your best to communicate your needs, either verbally or nonverbally, otherwise you could end up resentful or unsatisfied.
Speaker 1:Does that mean sign language?
Speaker 2:Sign language Communicate.
Speaker 1:No, but so it is helpful, I think. But like this would have been helpful if we had gone through this earlier in our marriage. Yes, To kind of like okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's why this is an issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that wasn't real. Oh no, I know why. Like that could have been a conversation we had, but we didn't. Because it's nice, is that loving years in, like we kind of figured. We figured this out, yes, but this would have been a great tool earlier on.
Speaker 2:Right. I just think that it's a good. I think this is a good conversation starter to have these things kind of pointed out and also we always talk about, like reading Dr Shoots and Brunet Brown and the therapy, therapy in a nutshell, lady.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And, but those are like loving terms to be able to… like, have a common term, to have a common language so that we can talk about the same thing, because sometimes we're talking past each other or we're not understanding one another. But for us to now, we've even said out loud like oh, this is your agreeableness right now, and, and so this could help.
Speaker 1:I'm more. I've more boasted about my disagreeableness.
Speaker 2:This is true, true, but I think that this is important, because this isn't a like, this isn't really a you're lying to me, you're keeping something from me, but it's because of the partners agreeableness that they're trying not to hurt your feelings, so they'll go along with it and then. But the problem with that is eventually you'll be unsatisfied and you haven't advocated for yourself yet. So then you're at a point where you're kind of bitter about it and the other person didn't know.
Speaker 1:Right. So that's if you're more agreeable like you're more like they're into resentful about unspoken expectations, correct. Then it says about parenting. What would be like as parents?
Speaker 2:If and when you have children, you will tend to be firm but appropriately caring, while your partner will tend to do too much for them.
Speaker 1:It says I'm the perfect parent. Let's just keep going.
Speaker 2:I miss that word. Where does it say perfect it, just it.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Appropriately caring.
Speaker 3:Appropriate. I don't feel.
Speaker 2:Perfect, okay.
Speaker 1:In other words, but honestly though, I feel this is sorry, joking aside, that was disagreeable.
Speaker 2:I have 6% to disagree on this.
Speaker 1:Joking aside, though, I don't think you actually do that. You don't tend to care for them too much, right, like you've, yeah, and I don't know if it's because, like you've been, like I'm a boy mom, I'm a yeah, I have too many children to do that, maybe.
Speaker 2:No, I've been that way.
Speaker 1:No, you've always been like that, but I feel like you have like very appropriate levels like we. It says here that we will tend towards authoritative parenting, which is characterized by making reasonable demands of the children. I feel like we both like it says that for me. Sorry, I'll be sorry. Keep reading. I feel like this is an accurate for you, but keep going.
Speaker 2:Okay. You will tend toward an authoritative parenting style, which is characterized by making reasonable demands of your children, while being responsive to their needs and wishes. Your partner will tend toward a permissive parenting style, which is characterized by making relatively low demands on your children, while being highly responsive to their needs and wishes.
Speaker 1:So that's not.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's accurate about my parents, but now.
Speaker 1:One thing I would ask you, though, is like do you feel like your factory settings would have been that, but they're not? Because of like choices to like. I want to break cycles. I want to, you know, make you know. I don't know like be, be good at things that I didn't grow up with.
Speaker 2:Truthfully, I think more my time in the classroom and as a coach. Interesting I was like I will not have children that are like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, these kids yeah.
Speaker 3:Just because, we love all our kids, no, but that's.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's again important to, because I think you could go through these tests and feel very pigeonholed and like, oh, is that the way I'm going to be?
Speaker 3:but not necessarily.
Speaker 1:No, you could have been permissive, but you're like no, I don't want my kids to be this way. They need to have this kind of discipline. Because one of the things I think you and I talk about a lot together is that we're grateful to be parenting with one another because we have a very shared vision of our parenting. More than I think anything else, I think in terms of our relationship, our parenting shared vision is like 100 percent the same. So the point that, like, our kids will ask us questions either days apart or like or like in different rooms.
Speaker 1:We haven't talked about it like that's what mommy said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we haven't talked about it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like Colby came and asked me this question. Yeah, like this is what I said, what are you going to say? And like we had no idea that they asked the other person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not that we don't disagree. Sometimes, like, there's times where the kids will ask me something and if it's something that I know you've decided on, I'll say I'm not answering that until I talk to your mommy. And there's things that, like, you didn't tell me you decided on and I decided, and then you later like oh, I told him differently. I was like I didn't know. I'm sorry, but you know, but I made this call.
Speaker 1:So, like there's times that we don't get things exactly right, but for the most part they know that we're on the same page. Like they can't really play us, which they try to do, but they can't really.
Speaker 3:They fail.
Speaker 1:That's a nice and again, I know I have my own things of like I want to do things a certain way, yeah, but for you it's interesting that like it was the coaching and the teaching that made you.
Speaker 2:I think that was. Yeah, I think that's what tipped the scales for me. All right, what else about agreeableness?
Speaker 1:Well, that will move to what I put as one B. So within agreeableness again, there's compassion, which we both scored very similarly on. We're both in the 90s for that. And then another aspect that makes up agreeableness is politeness, yep. So in politeness again, which is part of agreeableness, and this is where we differ the most, I scored in the ninth percentile, say that again. In the ninth percentile. I'm nine.
Speaker 2:Single digit.
Speaker 1:Yes, ninth percentile worth of politeness which, again, I think people will be like. Not Renzo, so polite.
Speaker 2:And I have 89th percentile.
Speaker 1:Look at that. So nice, so nice, so nice and kind. So it says you are low in the aspect of politeness. That means you are unlikely to be obedient or differential to authority. You may be very respectful Thank you, but only to those who earn it, not me. Oh man, I have so many issues I struggle, do you read that You're like, yeah, like, why are you in my house? Yeah, no, that's me. I struggle. Yeah, and like that's me, that's.
Speaker 2:And I wonder if, like the switch happens when you find some reason to not respect somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2:Then you just are so short. Give away my secrets I struggle Like one word answers Yep, they're in a place of authority. You'll still do what they say, but you're like not as enthusiastic.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful, though I don't have to struggle with that at work. Yes, like I don't have that issue, because if I doubt, but like I've had situations at work where I yeah. And it's again. It's the thing I feel like I can't turn off, like I don't have as much control over that as I might over. Like I have control over how, like how I'll speak to them, like obviously yes, but like I can't feel like I respect you enough to trust the way you're leading.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's, that's yeah.
Speaker 2:So you'll like, I'll do my job.
Speaker 1:I'll quit my job and then I go find a different job, like I struggle when that's the case and then, well, and so I struggle with that, I struggle with that at home in that Sorry. So if you keep reading so beyond that, you are likely to be willing to push back against someone, who, someone, when you are challenged, true, you're more comfortable than the average with confrontation and may even enjoy it. I haven't read this one, yeah.
Speaker 2:You love you.
Speaker 1:I like debates. I enjoy debates, yes.
Speaker 2:We would have a conflict and like we would come to a resolution and it would be like we would work through something. And then I'd be like white and still kind of like hurt or like emotional about it and you're all like amped up. You're like I loved that, that was great, and I'm like how yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like, I like debate, I like disagreement. Again, that's why I like yeah. So, like at work, it's good because like that's how you get collaborative and you can, you know, push back whatever.
Speaker 2:I thought. Sorry to digress a little bit, but I thought the recent John Aikoff reel about the three things that teams need to be successful was so good. That was one of them that, like you, have to be willing to challenge one another because otherwise you'll never grow.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I kept thinking about your team at work. It was something about ask questions, willing to ask questions. Learning together something I think willing to challenge so that you could learn together, and then willingness to fail so that, like you're willing to try new things and not go well but, that's like where the potential comes. That sounds like your work team now.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting. Sorry, because as I'm reading this, I also remember she's still a friend of ours. Do you know who I'm talking about? No, oh, ok, so she's a friend of ours, the way you introduce her is so weird.
Speaker 2:I'm not talking to people, I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1:I'm talking to you Well, because I disagreed with her so much, but I remember there was a friend of ours that would come visit and we would always end up debating about some aspect of the faith. Do you remember what I'm talking about? Deep into the night. And I used to love that.
Speaker 2:And I fell asleep. We're still debating, we're still debating.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like we're having a conversation, we were still debating a thing. I remember loving that and it's so interesting because, like you, I think, recognizing yourself, like I enjoy that, but realizing that those things that you enjoy don't necessarily have to be something that your partner can do all the time, because, like it's a very superfluous thing, like it's like debates fun, yeah, like I can also just watch the video. Like it doesn't like in terms of like building a relationship, like you, they don't have to check every box because every box isn't necessary.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, that's not a yeah Like it's a fun thing to do with friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you don't need your partner to be the like oh man, she, she doesn't like debates. I can't.
Speaker 2:Well, and you know, what's funny is like I think that you do a good job of separating the person from the debate. You're like I can just debate this topic and it has nothing to do with the person. And for me, I'm like, when we're debating, I'm like emotionally invested. You know, like there's there's an interrelational element to this and that doesn't cross your mind.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:You're like no, this is intellectual. Yeah, this versus that. So I think that's a little bit of where we have a difference in that and I think I don't know, yeah, just recognizing that my feelings could get hurt in a different and it used to be like why are you feeling, saying hurt?
Speaker 1:we're just disagreeing on a topic and I'm like, but I'm part of that right, so but I think in, but like still to my point, that so like because you know I enjoy, that doesn't mean that like that's a deal breaker for a relationship, right?
Speaker 1:because, because I again, because we're reason, we're having this conversation so that people can have, so you can have conversations about your compatibility with your significant other hopefully your spouse, fiance or person you're dating but like those like being recognizing, like this is a again, like this is a part of agreeableness and like this is a part of your personality. Yes, but it doesn't have to be a thing that like because you're this way, I can't yeah. Now, if I desire debate so badly that I constantly found things to be to disagree with you, like that's a problem, sure, but I'm high in compassion, so like Very good, I love you, but like I, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's a. That's also why I got like my degree in apologetics, because, like I, I love to argue about. I like, I like, yes, I like to argue, but so, yeah, so now, as a couple, read for me as a couple.
Speaker 2:Okay as a couple. Because you're a low in politeness, you are not likely to be obedient or differential to authority. Because your partner is high in politeness, she is likely to be very differential to authority and highly obedient, particularly if also low in assertiveness and aspect of extroversion. So that's another one of the categories. You may get in trouble from time to time, but your partner is not likely to do so.
Speaker 1:You'll be like us and I will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you will be comfortable confronting others, including your partner. Your partner is likely to be very non confrontational and conflict averse. You risk being more confrontational than necessary, but your partner's tendencies may be may help balance you out. Your partner will be respectful of others, including authority figures. Your partner will respect social norms more than you. You will tend to question them, especially if you are high in openness which I am to experience or high in assertiveness, also an aspect of extroversion. You are likely to be fairly skeptical, while your partner is more naive. You will want to feel more a more dominant behavioral again, particularly if you are high in assertiveness, while your partner will be more submissive Unless he or she is assertive as well.
Speaker 1:You are very assertive. What do you? What do you think about that, about me be it's saying that I'd be I'm more skeptical of things, which I am, but then it would. It seems like the contrast is more naive. Would you categorize yourself as naive?
Speaker 2:Relationally. Yeah, really my, my impulses to just trust people when they say things and do things. Really until they prove otherwise. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I think like I find myself to be an intelligent person like. I think I learn well and I know I know important things, but when it comes to relationships, I'm deaf. I would call myself naive.
Speaker 1:That's funny because. I assume, the best in everybody because we see this in our kids too. Like I know, yes, we know which ones. Yeah, they're great, handsome and strong. And like, no, you're such a nice boy, yeah yeah, I guess that for me, yes, handsome strong.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I agree with that, and you've taught me a lot. You've taught me a lot and not being so naive. So I think I don't put myself in dangerous situations now because of so, for example, in traveling and how to hold my bag and I don't know just what things to do with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that study that I think I heard from Jack Willing that they took, they recorded researchers recorded people walking and then they took that footage to prisoners and had them assess who they were more likely to assault, to rob them and almost like I think it was like 97% of them picked the same people. It was based on their stride and based on just how they were walking.
Speaker 1:And I remember my dad and my dad didn't show me exactly how to walk, but he was very big on. The way you hold yourself makes a big difference, and the way you observe as you're walking makes a big difference.
Speaker 2:And you teach me where to park and how to behave in restaurants Just different things. I feel like you've taught me a lot.
Speaker 1:It makes me seem neurotic In safety.
Speaker 2:you are a little bit neurotic, but it's taught me a lot. And then, even in relationships, I think that I would be more. Forgiving is the wrong word. You're all supposed to forgive, but forgiving it to the sense of okay, the boundaries are all gone again. You're like no, they haven't proven that they deserve access to you like that. So I think that's been good. But that was learned. So I think again, my factory setting is naive.
Speaker 1:Well, just even the setting boundaries to me comes very easy, so hard for me, right.
Speaker 2:Which is it's like an active thought. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then there's boundaries I've set that I've had to like okay, I don't have to set this boundary anymore. Which is very hard for me to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can only set a little bit.
Speaker 1:But even that's something worth assessing, especially when you and your significant other are talking about how you're going to handle your family of origin and friendships, because if you both look at boundaries or even see that one of you might be like this is necessary boundaries, the other is there's no reason to have those at all. I think that could be a discussion that can avoid a lot of fights down the road, because you're already on the same page, recognizing you're coming from two different perspectives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1:So the other personality. Let's see how far into this are we? Whoa, where's the screen? There you are. So the other category of the big five that we're going to go over is conscientiousness. This is another one. The reason I picked this one, too, is because this is another one that we defer Scores are very different. We're just very different, and if we had read this sooner, I think it would have. The ADHD thing is part of the discussion as well, but yeah, this would have been nice to know beforehand. I don't know.
Speaker 3:Actually I wonder if you had read this beforehand.
Speaker 1:I wonder if she would have not wanted to marry me, because this just paints a very bleak picture of what Renzo's going to be like as a husband. With that in mind, yes, can you define conscientiousness for us.
Speaker 2:Conscientiousness is a big five personality trait associated with attention to detail, hard work, persistence and orderliness, as well as adherence to rules, standards and processes. Conscientious people are careful, reliable, organized, self-discipline and persevering. Unconscientious people tend to be more laid back, less orderly, more inconsistent and less reliable. They are more likely to procrastinate and are less likely to persist when pursuing their goals.
Speaker 1:In drumroll Monica, what is your percentile for conscientiousness?
Speaker 2:96th percentile.
Speaker 1:And what is Renzo's?
Speaker 2:Do you want to say it?
Speaker 1:I'm in the seventh percentile for conscientiousness. So that is seventh percentile for attention to detail, hard work, persistence, orderliness and adherence to rules, standards and processes Yep, great. So I want to, we got a little, give me a little grace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, not good.
Speaker 1:Who are you? You can't dispense. Grace, you can't dispense grace, mediatrics of grace.
Speaker 2:I can't do that, but no, I want to give you some credit where credit is due and also kind of comment on. We got some pushback a few episodes ago about men and practice of chastity, practicing of virtue, practicing of discipline and like. This is why you harp on it, this is why you talk about it so much Because I am a disaster.
Speaker 2:Because in your factory setting you have almost none, and it's all been learned, it's all been practiced and it's all been through grace that you have the discipline that you have today. And so, yes, this was a huge problem in our marriage when we first got married.
Speaker 1:I can't even believe you dated me. Not trying to be funny or self-deprecating, because again we're talking about factory settings. I know how lazy I was, and I don't think lazy is the right term because that assumes that everything is as easy to choose. To not do as it is to do.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I think that's not the case. It's not like a 50-50 choice, it's definitely pushed to do nothing. I feel like my factory settings are much easier to do nothing than to do anything. I think that's what you meant. And yes, in dating I know I was a very different person than I am now. Looking back at the beginning of our marriage or our engagement, I know that the way I am now is remarkably different and I don't know how to express without just sounding hyperbolic.
Speaker 2:You've never signed hyperbolic.
Speaker 1:How everything that I do is 100% a free choice, but immensely difficult. It is not easy to do these things Anything. Choose the thing that I do, parent my kid's not easy. I love my wife. Not easy. I would much rather and this kind of lays it up, I would much rather just sit and do nothing, and that's what I used to do all the time. So why'd you date me? Because I was so charming.
Speaker 2:So charming.
Speaker 1:That was funny.
Speaker 2:You are very witty. Why did I date you? There's a lot of reasons why I dated you. I knew, though, that when it came to the important things, you would do the right thing.
Speaker 3:Did you though?
Speaker 2:I did, and I knew that you would put me first.
Speaker 1:Well, that's actually something I've.
Speaker 2:I think I've talked about a guy's talks before, you were quite smitten with me.
Speaker 1:I was. I've talked about that. A guy's talks before how like that is a huge, like being in love was probably one of the first things. That like I want to be different, right, and then like then there's a conversion in Jesus and that too. But like I first, I first wanted to date you before I did Jesus. And like that was one of those like and like silly things. Like I want to get in shape. I was very I was a lot of different shapes in high school and college.
Speaker 2:What shape did you want to get in?
Speaker 1:Like, but like little things like that. Like, like wanting to be with you was what, and date you was one of the things that like started motivating me. Like, okay, I can be a little different. She gets really good grades. Maybe I can work a little harder in school. Yeah, so like, yeah, so that started that process. But yeah, like it's not. Yeah, I just I I sympathize, um and empathize with a lot of the guys that might feel, that are similarly in consciousness, like they're just, they have no factory settings for it, but I like, but that doesn't mean that that's where they have to stay.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I do think. I don't know how you could be low consciousness, conscientiousness, and then also be a good husband and father Like I don't. I don't think.
Speaker 2:I can stay there.
Speaker 1:No, like if I stayed in where my factory settings put me like I would not. I would be. I would be such a bum and I'm sorry if that's like offensive to some people, but I know I would be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we have. Now. We parent a few kids that have low conscientiousness and we talk to them about like you, you remind them all the time that you're like I don't want to do anything Cause they'll say like I don't want to do it, Like they would. Their default, too, would be to not do anything.
Speaker 1:Just stay home.
Speaker 2:And they would just stay home, even if it's a thing that they love, like once they get there, they enjoy it and they love it, but like they don't want to do it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Cause it requires the effort to go and do and like they don't, they don't have that, and that's like.
Speaker 1:And you're never going to have it.
Speaker 3:You're never going to have the thing that drive you.
Speaker 1:You think you're going to. Oh, once I get to a point, it's going to be a habit. No, it's not. You're still not going to want to do it?
Speaker 2:No, it's still, it's still hard and then, like they look at, they look at our other kids we had. Our oldest is conscientious and like we'll say yes to anything, yeah. And he's like, can you go do this? Yeah, Do you want to go do that? Absolutely Like.
Speaker 2:And he'll say yes to everything and do it with full effort and like conscientious, unless he's tired than he is and he has lost all country, Anyway. So so they see him and they're like I don't have that. So we try to really articulate that like just because you don't have that doesn't mean you can't do it, that's true, yeah. And we really try so that when they're an adult they already have that mantra in their head. But like, just because I don't want to doesn't mean I can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:So let's see what Jordan Pearson has to say about us as a couple. Okay, as a couple, you are low. You are low in conscientiousness and your partner is very high in conscientiousness. This means the two of you have significantly different strategies for dealing with the world, which can be beneficial for you as a couple. However, this may present a challenge within your relationship because you may have trouble understanding one another at times. You'll have to be careful to avoid the pitfalls of your respective personality traits. You and your partner are significantly different. You will sometimes find it difficult to understand each other's drives and motivations and what you find important. You will sometimes disagree on the best course of action in a particular situation. You will also differ in your drive for achievements and ambition and in how and in how disturbed you are by disorder and chaos. With the partner low in conscientiousness, much less bothered.
Speaker 1:Is that true?
Speaker 2:You could see our bedroom, not just our bedroom.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, our children are home.
Speaker 2:I feel like our bedroom is the clearest image of. That is a choice for me to let it go.
Speaker 1:Look at you. Growing Look at you.
Speaker 2:The two of you just agree about how carefully, quickly and effectively household tasks seem to be done. I'm so sorry you may find you.
Speaker 1:But I'm getting up in the morning going to Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker 2:Right. So the household stuff doesn't get done because you're at Jiu Jitsu. You may find you have very different lifestyles and you may also have trouble dividing the household labor fairly. If your standards do not line up, this will present a problem in your relationship. In accordance with the strength of the difference, you can use your differences.
Speaker 1:Can you talk about that? Household, labor and delivery, no, just household labor.
Speaker 2:We used to argue a lot about. Why do you have to feel like you have to be productive all the time?
Speaker 2:Why can't you just sit and I would sit and be like because everything is screaming at me to be put away. It's hard for me to relax in mess and disorder and you don't have an issue with that at all. So we've both had to grow in this area. Sometimes I do just need to chill because, no matter how much I work, this house will never be orderly with the humans that live here and the stuff that we have and the schedule that we have. But also, you have Absolutely like agreed that if I have something on a list, you're like okay, you can't add to this, but we'll work on that list so that you can feel better, that that list is accomplished and you'll help accomplish that list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I've also tried to be better about and this is like I'm still not positive on like how, like ADHD falls into this but I've also tried to like, if I see a mess, I'll try to clean it, even if it's not on the list or something I was thinking about doing. But like, if I see it, I'll do it, if I don't see it, I'm not doing it. Like, does that make sense, like it's not remarkable what you don't see, but yes, Is it in there?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:But like that's, I've tried to in in again because that's a choice of like I right I actively don't.
Speaker 2:I don't want to do it, no.
Speaker 1:Well, also, I don't see the mess I don't Like. So, like I, have to look.
Speaker 2:When you see it, you acknowledge it and you do something about it.
Speaker 1:The good Ben today did you see, with the, with the oats?
Speaker 2:Yes, he vacuumed the oats.
Speaker 1:Oh, I vacuumed them because he decided to pour a whole thing he tried to make oatmeal for himself and just poured everything.
Speaker 2:This is me not doing anything for him, though. He said he wanted a snack and I said go get it for yourself. Yep, so then he wanted to make oatmeal.
Speaker 1:Conscientious little boy.
Speaker 2:That's right, um, okay, but you can use your differences to your advantage, each helping one another to develop the virtues of the opposite trait.
Speaker 1:Which is like that's again in terms of a compatibility, looking at it with your spouse, fiance or dating partner like we could. We are so different but that doesn't necessarily mean that we can't be together, but I think we both have to be willing to see the benefit of being like the other.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that we can kind of adopt some of those things, and but it has to go both ways. Like you can't just be, I have to be more like you.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because I do think you gain a lot in your soul by just chilling with me.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:So let's just.
Speaker 2:We watch our midday TV on the weekend.
Speaker 1:Yes, but, like I, it took a lot to get to that point. And then I know that I have to support you and I have to just be more aware of what's happening around the house and also be willing to like, okay, she's cleaning, I'm not going to be like, hey, let's just relax. Like I will be like, oh, how can I help? Or like try to find a thing to like, yes, support in.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or just be like babe mass not to 930 today.
Speaker 2:So you're ready for nine o'clock mass today and mass is not until 930. That was nice. That was a surprise.
Speaker 3:Yup.
Speaker 2:Cause daily mass at nine.
Speaker 1:All right, so our behavioral roles.
Speaker 2:Oops, okay, um, you are significantly lower in conscientiousness than your partner. You will tend to see your partner as rigid, judgmental, obsessive and overly hardworking at times. Your partner will tend to see you as lazy, messy and careless at times.
Speaker 1:And was that true early in marriage? Yeah, definitely the overly hardworking of like, why are you cleaning? Yeah, and who's coming over. And I used to argue be like they have to see how we live. Now I would never do that. Now I'm like no people can't see this. But I remember earlier be like it doesn't matter, we live. Also. We only had two cats.
Speaker 2:We didn't have five children, five children and a dog and yeah, busy schedule. Your partner will be much more orderly, industrious, ambitious, work oriented, driven, efficient and prone to failure related shame and guilt than you will be. So look at that. Your partner will be more likely to succeed in their work or educational pursuits than you are. You will be less likely to obsess about small detail, work to the exclusion of all else and to be overcome with ambition.
Speaker 1:So I feel like that's not accurate.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:I am plenty ambitious.
Speaker 2:I'm just pulling out the Renzo Y card.
Speaker 1:Oh, ok, isn't it obvious? Look at all this. Why Look at all this? Yes, so like I think it and like to work to the exclusion of all else, like that happens a lot. Like I get so stuck in work that I forget everything else happening.
Speaker 2:But you know, what's interesting is that I think, when it comes to creative work, you like that.
Speaker 1:Yes. But if it comes to Never writing a paper again.
Speaker 2:That's not true.
Speaker 1:You write for your job.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's creative work, not a paper.
Speaker 1:A paper is different.
Speaker 2:Not an assigned task that I don't care about.
Speaker 1:I just make things up, sorry.
Speaker 2:But I think that, like when it comes to Like, for example, the chicken coop- yes. Zero percent wanted to do any of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was like an active choice, but you were like I know my wife really wants it, so I do it.
Speaker 3:OK.
Speaker 2:But like. So I think that like yeah, when you're creative.
Speaker 1:But, but the overcome with him? No, but it's not just that, like there was times with the chicken coop that I was like I'm going to see how long I could dig Before my hands start hurting yeah. And just like, or like I give myself like what 90 minutes I'm like I want to see if I can get to like this point, yeah.
Speaker 3:OK.
Speaker 1:So like I guess it may be again, so like this I don't know if, like I feel like sometimes like she can help with overcoming some of this because, like I have, like there will be times where I got lost in the digging, which sounds so stupid, like I got lost in digging, wheelbarrowing and like how much can I feel the wheel barrel with? And then carried over Like I got stuck in that, poor you, but I got stuck in that that I was able to do more than I normally would.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ok.
Speaker 1:But also like it wasn't straight. So let's touch the detail. It wasn't there. It wasn't straight my partner. You are much higher sensitivity and lower threshold for cleaning. Wait, oh yeah, you will have a lower threshold for cleaning, tidying and organizing that. What am I reading this wrong?
Speaker 2:Your partner will have a much higher sensitivity and lower threshold for cleaning, tidying and organizing than you will.
Speaker 1:Oh, ok, this could mean that your partner does all of this type of work, since they are more sensitive to it. Sorry, you will have to take care. Take care to divide the households towards fairly. My partner is a lot more likely to want to do something more, something productive, or cleaning up and tidying, organizing, rather than relaxing. So true, it's like we just said all this, but that should have been like a math. I don't even think we talked about that before we got married. No, like, there was not even a discussion about like, how do you spend time? Because we didn't. I don't know if we were in, I don't know. Should I have known that? Like, should we have known that about each other before I?
Speaker 2:don't know. We both lived with our parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like I think, a lot of.
Speaker 1:No, but you lived in an apartment by yourself for a while.
Speaker 2:For six months.
Speaker 1:And you cleaned it. I should have seen.
Speaker 2:It's not messy, it's true, yeah, and cooked and stuff, but I don't know. I feel like we lived with our parents very, very close up to getting married, so like a lot of that was still just within our family culture. Like when I lived at home I didn't have to cook every meal because so is that something that couples should do before they get married?
Speaker 1:Then it's even, I don't know, like we tell them to have discussions about household chores, but I even think like having discussions about how important it is to clean up a mess. Yeah, like I think that's like wording a discussion. This could even be something for the pre-kana. We do Like wording the problem differently, more than like who's going to take the garbage out, who's going to Sure. Right, because if a person is bothered by mess, the other person is literally.
Speaker 2:Like. The question is like can you relax when a room is messy?
Speaker 1:That's great, write it down. But, like that's a great question, because, yes, I can. Well, it depends on what the mess. If something's wet, I don't know, that bothers me.
Speaker 2:When my socks are damp.
Speaker 3:I cannot I know, I can't.
Speaker 1:I've met you, I've been wet and there's a potential for me to step in that later. I can't Sorry, can't do that, nope, alright. Last thing, the false in virtues of as a couple.
Speaker 2:Okay, and this is still just in conscientiousness.
Speaker 1:Just conscientiousness.
Speaker 2:The two of you differ quite a lot in how hard you like to work and how clean you like to keep things.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's a lot of. The introductions are the same.
Speaker 2:Okay, your partner may have a hard time loosening up enough to let something creative, messy or new happen.
Speaker 1:Like when I want to cook something.
Speaker 2:Oh, and then you leave everything out while you're cooking. But like listen, that's how the magic clean as you go, and even with our children. That's not a thing. I know.
Speaker 1:My grandma used to call me the hurricane.
Speaker 2:I hate it, but in Spanish.
Speaker 1:Yes, uracán, there we go. I don't even know if it's a hurricane in Spanish, but that's how she said it. But yeah so like that's where the create, like I do think I'm more creative, but even like. So I joked about like the lighting in this, but like to get this to happen Took a lot of failure. Yeah and a lot of like I need to figure in leaving everything out. I wonder if you could see the box, but like leaving just things out and just like making messes.
Speaker 1:Yes in order to make the podcast happen.
Speaker 2:I know and then you scolded me for cleaning them up the other day. But I was like people are coming with little children. We have to put the expensive.
Speaker 1:But it took like 20 extra minutes to put this bug up, just like okay. Yeah, my time is valuable, but it's okay.
Speaker 2:As is the stuff that they will all touch. All right, where did I go? She may feel prisoner to rigid routine and habit. You can help your partner by encouraging them to loosen up from time to time as well as to relax. You can help your partner feel like he or she can relax by contributing to your, by contributing your fair share around the house and staying on top of that. It's important.
Speaker 1:Should have read that eight years ago.
Speaker 2:Not just saying just sit down, it's fine, we could do it later. Yep no it's both and All right. You might have the tendency to let a task slide until you get into trouble. This is good for you to think about the kids too sometimes it was, oh my gosh, john Paul with his orange peels.
Speaker 1:sometimes oh my gosh, he puts them everywhere. The windows, though, just pile up. Sorry, keep going.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it will be your partner with whom you are in trouble, and this dynamic is not good for the relationship. Your partner can help you by encouraging you to work hard, apply yourself and learn from discipline that you can help yourself by making and sticking to a skid false.
Speaker 1:Instead of your partner, say David Goggins, work hard to fly yourself and learn some discipline.
Speaker 2:Oh, that new podcast, that new episode with um. Hubert man, hubert, men, it's good stuff, all right. Conscientiousness predicts me.
Speaker 1:Okay, conscientiousness predicts me sorry to do it again. Sorry, what is it? What is it?
Speaker 2:Conscientiousness predicts marital stability and a low likelihood of divorce. Since you are low or very low in Consciousness, you may be predisposed to have a less stable marriage and to experience divorce. Well, that's Jokes on me. However, is unlikely to engage in behaviors that increase the likelihood of these outcomes. Part of this is owning is Owing to the fact that conscientious people are concerned with maintaining their relationship and they feel guilty when they hurt their partner or the relationship. You may be able to improve the stability of your relationship by having a regular conversation with your romantic partner. Low conscientiousness predicts infidelity infidelity in a relationship Although many other traits and personal choices affect this behavior as so I am not a good mate.
Speaker 1:This is just one aspect of who you are but I again back to what we're saying earlier of like if you are again and I think people should take this test because I in with your significant other, I think it'll help a lot with having these discussions, but if you know you're low in conscientiousness, I Don't think anybody wants to hear like you're more likely to get divorced, like, no, I'm not, I'm Catholic. But like if you're low in conscientiousness and you're prone to these behaviors and you're not doing anything to avoid those behaviors, the behaviors will naturally lead to this outcome instability in your marriage.
Speaker 2:So you might not a good divorce, but like if your relationship is unstable.
Speaker 1:That's not your goal right, right, so like it, or even like so like I Don't talk. We've talked about sex last three episodes. I don't do it again. But like, low conscientious is pretty infidelity. So like so. We could even word that as like if you're low in conscientiousness, you're less likely to be to have the virtue of chastity.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that should be something you're so focused on, and by cleaning up all the other things around your life, it makes it easier to acquire that virtue and then by grace, you can you know, could perfect it.
Speaker 1:But I think just being aware of like, again, these are your factory settings, this is what you need to work on. Like your weaknesses are here. So, the same way that, like you could be, you could say like you're high in consciousness, you need to be careful with like, feeling shame for not being able to complete things, and like there's so there's not saying it's just all on me, I just I think mine, I'm more sensitive to it because, like I've had to live with it, so like I have to get better at this stuff but I mean so going to that like conscientiousness, that, like my identity is not based on how much I produce like my Worth is not based on how clean my house is, yeah, and also that I probably have a tendency towards nagging instead of just like Writing a list or asking because it's important to me but not to you.
Speaker 2:I could fall into a trap of of Like putting you down or constantly be bothering you and not in it, like not in a nice way, not in a call you up way, but sure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think that's why the call you up is so important to you. Again, I think we're passionate about the areas of our lives that we are not strong in yes.
Speaker 1:Or that we've had to work to get strong and so, like I, I think I tend to harp a lot on our show about whenever it comes to like men and Not not living up to their roles as husband and father. I tend to be very harsh on them because I've had to be harsh on myself and I'm assuming most of those guys are low in conscientiousness, just like me. Again, like I'm one of you and because of that, like we need to really buck up and start Picking up on these areas that we're weak in, and it starts with discipline. Like I think that's a reason why, why jackal willing and those personalities have gotten so popular is because, guys, they've been looking for like the self-help things that that'll get them out of bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah and they don't know what it is, and and like there's just, there's not a thing that's gonna motivate you? No, it's not gonna be something that sparks you and then like, yes, now I'm motivated to do it you talk about, like I just do it because I have to. I don't like it, I don't want to, it's awful every time, but I have to do it for the stability of my marriage and my relationship.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, so again like we said, these are factory settings is not saying this is exactly what you're gonna be forever.
Speaker 2:Yep, so some of the other, so that it keeps kind of talking about cleanliness and stuff like that, but also about Pursuing career goals, possibly like more responsible with money. Let conscience people are more likely to be responsible with money but also be more likely to feel guilty about inappropriate spending and saving habits. So, yeah, this can go into like the financial area of your life as well. So just to be aware of that.
Speaker 1:So funny we have. There's so much more we could. We only did like if there's more, but I'm like there's, we don't have time.
Speaker 2:We've done it.
Speaker 1:So I think, to close, though, I think it's super important that you start having the right conversations with your, if you're dating with your, with your, with the person you're dating. You're engaged with your fiance and if you're married, like, you need to have the correct conversations, not just Does not that thing, just because you're talking about chores, that you're having the right conversation. Similar to like, do remember the, the basketball camps used to go to we were a little and they'd say, like practices make perfect, perfect, practice makes perfect. Do you remember that? Yes, so, like I, you, you say practice makes progress. Yes, but like my point being more of like, if you want to get, if you want your marriage to improve in these areas, like, I think, having the correct conversation, not just having any conversation, yes, and this is a really great tool for having the same vocabulary when having these conversations.
Speaker 2:So we're talking about the same thing and we can refer back to this so that if it seems like one person is not following or you're both talking about two different things, then you can refer to this as a way of Again not being stuck in a certain role or a certain disposition, but to have the same language and to also just be like oh, that's why this is a point of contention, like, oh, this is why we're fighting about this is why you're the way you are.
Speaker 2:Because we're like coming at it from completely different places. And and what is the happy middle? Yeah, right, like is, there is their room for improvement, and that's what that I like that this is a really like hopeful Test. This isn't a like compatibility test, like you're doomed, but it's really a because your tendency, because your factory settings are this here's areas of growth For both of you. Yeah and it's not. One's not right or wrong either. Yeah, cuz high consciousness like Obsessive yeah.
Speaker 1:So in terms of you kept compatibility, I think a lot depends on how much you're willing to put in the work, because I don't think any two people are perfectly compatible. Even if this person we haven't even talked about like marrying the one, but even if this person is the one that you're gonna marry and then the one you're gonna spend your rest of your life with, it Doesn't automatically make you compatible. Um, I don't think anything does but like, but working at it and having the right conversations and even understanding, like your factory settings.
Speaker 2:So yeah, can you show off a little Spanish buzz like you? That's just for me.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is special, so, but thank you, guys for being here, thank you for supporting the show and Listening to our conversations. If you are watching us on YouTube, like comment, subscribe. Please like, comment and subscribe and yeah, do all three so that we are shown up in the algorithm. And then, if you are listening on Apple podcast or Spotify, leave us a five-star review, leave us a comment on Apple and Anything else. You will see you at the next episode.