Fighting In Front of Your Kids

We got into an argument in front of our kids and then we talked about it. Let's jump in!

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

And welcome back to episode 180 something of To Become Family. We are your host, Renzard Monica Ortega, and we are the authors of Let's Just Get to Love Making by released by Ave Maria Press. And we um we would encourage you to go buy a few copies for you and all of your in-laws because I'm sure there's exactly what they want to read about.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

If you search for it, it's just called Love Making, not Let's Get To. Maybe that's why that's the sequel.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Let's just get to it. Um, so today we are going to be talking about fighting in front of your kids. Mixed martial arts, punching and kicking, and how to get them to not call it. This is why we train. Um we did fight in front of the kids um a few weeks ago. And I just thought it'd be good to talk about that because our kids acted like we've never argued in front of them before, which was interesting. Um, and like and we did what we always do after we argue in front of them and they have questions. And I just thought it'd be like, oh, this would be cool to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Um, just because though we have argued and had disagreements in front of our kids before, and not just like little disagreements, like we've had big disagreements before in front of the kids. Um, they haven't ever asked us questions like, like, are you gonna get divorced? Are you, you know, are you gonna break up? Yeah, break up. Like, does that mean you don't love mommy anymore? Um, things like that. And I think because a large part is because of how we do the entire thing. And uh I thought it'd be good to talk about. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

I agree. I think I think yeah, because it happened recently, and they I I'm particularly curious to see how it goes in the next few arguments because a lot of questions came from our oldest who is switching from being like a little kid to a medium-sized kid. Um, and so I think he perceived things differently and really did not remember us fighting, arguing in front of him before, which we know we have, but I think it affected him differently because he's just at a different stage, like mental milestone stage, developmental stage.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah. Um, so my family, um, when they argued, they were when sorry, my family growing up when they argued, they were very vocal and very loud, and they did a good job of making sure it was always in the middle of the night when people should be sleeping. Mom, listener, you know what I'm talking about. Um, so they were just very good at at arguing like that. So like I remember watching my parents argue as a kid. Um, and that has not led me to want to like argue behind closed doors or to like don't not show them how to argue, but like I've always found it uh helpful that like if we do argue in front of the kids, like it's important that they see that we make up as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Like, and I think that's been the so why why did you feel okay arguing in front of the kids when it was it was a sore spot of your childhood? Like, why did that because I know I know I wanted to do something different because of the way my parents argued, which was I don't know if they ever argued, but I think they did because they definitely made comments about one another in off times that that demonstrated they were irritated with one another, but they definitely did not disagree out loud. Like you might you might be able to notice the initial disagreement, but there was no working through it, there was no fighting, there was no arguing, there was just like nothing, and you're like, what's the answer? What's the decision? You know, and you kind of just like waited for it to happen, I guess, or never happen. So I suppose you could call it somewhat passive aggressive in my home. But like, so I knew I wanted to do that differently. But why did you feel like you were okay doing it out loud if it was done out loud, but that wasn't something you appreciate that you didn't like?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

I have no idea. I don't know if this is like fully thought out.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

I just don't think you know how to not do it.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Probably I don't know if the thing bothers me. I want to talk about it then and there.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Exactly. Right now, with how I feel, with my belly on fire, we're gonna handle this.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

But I do think you've been very committed to handling it, not just not just yelling about your feelings, but like you wanted it handled. You wanted to express how you feel, and then there had to be yeah, there had to be a resolution at the end. Like that's been a very big thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Our whole I've been very committed to that. Yes. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Well, it was I mean, I like it now, but it was super uncomfortable at first. Like, shoot, I don't like tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

How did I make you uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_03 5:02

I think because it well, I mean, at first, when we were newlyweds, it would last a really long time. Like disagreements would last a while because we didn't necessarily come to a decision or an agreement, and it was really hard for me, and I think even for you, because I think you wanted us okay, sorry, backtracking a little bit. I think that there's a difference between coming to an agreement and coming to a resolution. And I think at first we wanted to make sure that we agreed with one another on everything. Like, do you feel the way I feel now? Like, do you not just like do you understand my point of view, but like, are you now on my side? Are we are we?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Do you get how you were wrong?

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Exactly, exactly. Actually, do you get how you're wrong and I was right? And I think that one thing we've learned is that we can come to a resolution. Sometimes it is you were right and I was wrong. Sometimes I was right and you were wrong, but a lot of times it's like, oh, let's collaborate, let's put these together and come to a resolution, a decision.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

I think most of the time it is the orange peel thing I explained to our oldest. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_03 6:16

I do remember that, but yeah, you explain that here. I don't think you've explained it here.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

I'm gonna do a terrible job of it, but um, I forgot where I read this, but there it's like um it's a made-up story about two neighbors that were arguing over an orange. Um, one neighbor came and asked if you could borrow the neighbor's orange, and the neighbor had one orange and he said no, and they got into an argument about it. Um, and then at the end of the argument, come to find out one neighbor wanted the orange for the juice that he can get out of it, and the other neighbor wanted the orange for the peel, because he wanted to use a peel for something. And if they had just discussed and got on the same page and articulated their wants, you know, well and understood each other, they would get that like they could both have what they wanted. And I think a lot of the times, at least in our arguments, um, I've come to find out that you are not unreasonable, you're just seeing things from let me be honest, you know that took a few years, but we got there. 13 and a half. Uh no, but like come to realize like you're just seeing things from a different perspective, and I have to appreciate that and learn to see it from your perspective. And a lot of times, like I think the argument comes into like, I don't understand what you're seeing. This like, tell me what you're seeing, and then you internally process and have to convince yourself a hundred times he's not trying to attack me, he's not trying to accuse me. He actually loves me. Tiny, tiny, and then eventually word bullets, and then eventually you tell me your perspective because I literally just want to know where you're coming from so I can understand.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yep. Yeah, you're aggressive, but why was really more a curious why instead of an accusatory why. And so we learned also that like tone and being gentle and we, we, I learned, but then also like I learned that that's actually what you're asking, and that a lot that came a lot from just doing it over and over again and building trust and being able to say my why and it not coming back to bite me in the rear end. Like you weren't using it as ammo, you were really curious, but like I needed to experience that a few times to learn to trust that because that wasn't how I had ever experienced disagreement before.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Like, oh, you actually want to hear my side? I didn't know I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

You're also super sensitive about the tone I use.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

So I've apologized every time I do use a bad tone. Again, I never mean it in a way that it's coming out. Like I just am saying the thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

And a lot of times listen to my words. No, not how I'm saying it was a phrase that was used often.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

I don't use I haven't used that in years.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

You haven't, but it was as we were learning.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

But even the most recent argument we had was uh because of my initial tone and the way I spoke to you, which is fine because I was wrong. However, I've come to I think we've talked about this before, like our home ends up being my safe place where like my ADHDness can just come out. And sometimes like it's it's just too much. Yeah, you gotta put it back in the bag. Like you can't take that much out.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Well, you can't take that much out. That I mean, yeah, that's been interesting, right? Because you've worked in social work and you've worked in I don't want to say customer service, but like so many of your jobs are like people oriented. Youth ministry and yeah, anyways. And and there's been a lot of times where you're like, I hate that I can't I hate not that I can't, I hate that I'm not treating you the way I treat other people when I disagree with them because Yeah, because I've had people screaming at my face and yelling at me and calling me names and doing things, and I'm just like, okay, well, let's get to it.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

So like paint me a win. That's been a good thing. What do we want to get to? It's okay. Like, I understand how you feel, I can I articulate how they're feeling, I can active listen and all that. But like when I get home, I just want to be able to say, Listen, I think that was dumb.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

And then you can get mad at me. And I have to say it nicely. That was not the most What was our recent fight about? I don't know, you did something.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

I don't remember. I don't well, and I think that's so in- I feel like it was more than just tone, but no, it started with tone.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

It does start with tone. It started with tone, and like because I don't think what was said, I don't think what I was saying was wrong. And I think you agreed to that after I apologized about tone. I was just like, because I think you thought I was trying because of my tone, it started with a I it was an attacking tone. I I I own that. So like I said it, I said something in a way that you felt like I was attacking you, which I understand why, because my tone was crappy. Um and then we got to the point that you like you raised your voice as well. Then I was like, She's raising her voice. I don't want to fight because I like you.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

So like I wasn't here for a while.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Well, then I was like, I'm not trying to fight you. What? And then like then you articulate, I forgot how you said it, but you said it again. I was like, Well, you're not talking to me like I was like, Well, you're probably right. So let me check my tone. Um, I forgot what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

I remember because I had it was it was car accident related, it was like insurance and appointments. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that now paperwork and stuff, and that is something that you have experience with in social work in the nursing home.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

And but you are currently working a different full-time job. So a lot of the appointment making and negotiating with insurance and figuring out has been on my plate. And you were like, you just need to tell me when you need help. And I was like, I did, and you didn't help. And I added feeling offended because I was hurt by not being helped when I feel so vulnerable. Like it was an appointment for me because I need an MRI and I needed like and I was in pain and I was very frustrated because people were telling me that it was being taken care of, but then ultimately it hadn't at that point. And you were kind of just like, well, do that dot dot. And I was like, it's so hard for me to stand up for myself already, and I just want you to do it for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

No, you're not wrong. No, you weren't wrong, and I I don't, and this is like a this is a thing that you'll notice at like our some of our kids have too, of just like just do the thing and push people, and like it's just not easy for everyone to do that, and I have to like take into account that and like you're asked, like you're asking for help because again, you asked for help, and I thought I gave help because I was like, okay, just say these things to these people and you should be good.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Yeah. And turned out it wasn't turned out because I did that and that didn't work. Yeah. And I think that was I think that was also part of it, is that I had to fill you in on the steps that I had taken for you to be like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Okay. No, and that was so sorry. So I said the things, right? Do these things and use you did them. Um, and you're filling me in. And I also did not appreciate it's such a interesting thing, sorry, because like I again, this is my fault because I didn't I assumed it would be easier to navigate the insurance thing, coming from like having to do that. I've had to do like what you needed me to do is things that I've done for other people so many times. So, like when somebody pushes back on whatever of like, oh, you know, I didn't get this fax. Oh, yeah, we'll give it to you in 24 hours. Like, you can push them to be like, no, I need it now. Like, I'm not getting off the phone until you send this thing to me now. And that's just not like that's something I should have done with you. So, like, then afterwards, we had our fight, we drove together and we got it done. So, and like having to go through multiple numbers and having to do all the jumping through the hoops and things, and yeah, so that was my fault for not helping, and also for not appreciating how like I just I didn't appreciate how hard this could be for you, not just a car accident related, but just having to go through insurance if you don't do it often or haven't done it often. Like, I have eight years' experience doing it, so like it's very different to just be like, Oh, it's time consuming, which I don't like, but so ultimately, like circling back to arguing in front of our kids. Sorry, I was rambling about it.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yeah, that's okay. Like two pieces that came out of that disagreement that was public in our home, um, was that our oldest in particular, but some of the others, like they were uncomfortable with us raising our voices at first. And the fact that we left then to go like handle it, because we had to run an errand car accident related, also. So we we left the kids, we went to go handle this situation. There's several of them that are not in place, so we had to go do something with the rental. So we had to go do the yeah, we had to yeah, return the rental and blah blah blah. Anyway, so did we return it?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

We didn't return it. We did something with the rental. Keep going. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

So they didn't love it because I think part of it is that they didn't witness the middle part of the like wrestling with it and working together to come to a resolution. So when we got home, they were very like, are you guys okay? Like, what?

SPEAKER_00 15:49

We were kissing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

And like, and then they're like, wait, we were flirting on the way. We were flirting on the way, and then like we're totally fine, but they missed that like wrestling and coming to a resolution part, which they normally get to witness. So I think that's why it was so like off-kiltering for them. But that brings us to the point of like arguing in front of your kids. We think we, as non-experts, but with experience, think that having disagreements in front of your kids is actually healthy as long as they also get to witness the like the process and the resolution and the reconciliation. Like they get to when we have an episode on it on rupture and repair. Like rupture is a very natural part of family life, of relationships, of marriages. Like things are going to happen and there's gonna be disagreements, there's gonna be um discomfort, there's gonna be spats, there's gonna be like full-on fights where uh voices get raised. But the important part, the part that like makes the relationship healthy and good is the repair part. So for them to watch that and experience that is really important because for example, like circling back to my childhood, like not seeing that when we disagreed and would have fights, I was terrified that our marriage was like broken and not gonna survive because I had never seen an argument come to its end in a in a like healthy, productive, yeah, fruitful way. And so it it scared me. And then for you, you were so heck bent on coming to a resolution, I think, because in your home there's a lot of like fighting about the same thing over and over again and nothing changing.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Well, that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah, and so I think that for both of us it was really uncomfortable at first for to like fight, but we were we were not in the wrong. And so now we don't hide it from our kids. It's not like we go and like stand in the room with them to make sure they see it, but like guys, we're fighting. But we don't we also circle, yeah. We also don't pick a side. We um that's actually how we resolve all our fights. They they vote. Um, there's five kids, so it's never, it's never a tie.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

The dog's on my side.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Um, but yeah, we just like we don't hide it.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

For that for this fight though, uh they a couple of them did come to me after though and ask why. And I so this is important too, is like I never talk badly about you to them, right? So I'll never say uh mommy was not listening. Like I'll even if I thought I was right, like I would always frame it as like we were arguing because daddy did something and daddy need to apologize for it. Like, I wanted to put it on terms that they could understand. So to two things put it in terms that they could understand, like I wouldn't can't go into the intricacies of it. That's probably why I forgot what they were. Um, but also not putting it ever on you if they're asking me the thing, because I don't want them to think that like, oh, it's because of mommy that they're fighting, so therefore when they're fighting, it's mommy's fault. Like it shouldn't, they shouldn't think of it as one fault or the other. And if they are gonna think of somebody's fault, like let it be the person they're asking so they can tell so I can tell them how I helped repair it. That makes sense, right? Yeah, and it wasn't like a mom.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Owning your own part and not blaming the other. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

So like, oh, daddy, and I said to them it was like daddy didn't speak to mommy nicely. Um, and I and I do believe I said I didn't help her with the things she needed help with, so I had to apologize for that, and it's my fault. And and then seeing that like, and we're okay because in the same way that like they have to apologize for the sibling, the sibling says, I forgive you, and then they move on and keep playing. Like, I like that they can see that like even as adults, like that's how you do things. Because I think that I think as adults, it's very hard to apologize for things. Um, because if we haven't experienced what it's like to be forgiven by someone and then be able to just move on and keep building doing whatever you're doing, you like you said, like you get fearful every time you fight of like this confrontation is just bad because like we're not gonna end up in a good place afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Yeah. And I think too, like, maybe you're wondering if if you're disagreeing, if you're fighting, if you're arguing about something that is like inappropriate for your kids to hear about, like sex or specifics of finances or I don't know, some other nitty-gritty things. Like there's been times where we've disagreed how to handle um people who have uh red flag behaviors or like addictions or things like that, like how to socialize with them and stuff. W that might happen like not in front of our kids, or if it is, then we will like use, I don't want to say code words, but we'll we'll keep it understandably vague, like we know what we're talking about, but maybe don't say like specific things in front of them.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I feel like that's different though than arguing. I don't know. Because like you and I got that was like a legitimate argument. I don't think we get into those a lot anymore. No, like we could like disagree, we have like differing opinions and then we sure can come to like a sh uh resolution. But like I think before, sorry, I think what we had in in the kitchen though, that was like an actual argument.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

And but I guess like if that's something that you guys find that you argue about and you're like, well, you're saying do this in front of your kids, like okay, sure, there's certainly topics that you're not going to explicitly say out loud.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Sorry, so like my full thought was I'm not we're not saying to try to fight in front of your kids, but if your kids do witness you fighting, make sure they witness the if they do witness the rupture, make sure they also witness how you repair.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And then it be ready to answer questions after. So like don't pursue a like an arena every time to try to fight. Um and I like even if you like you want to like small disagreements, I don't I don't even know if the kids can tell when for having a disagreement about something small. Um, but more of like I think it's important for like you said, like they could see the rupture, the repair, and then like the resolution afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

I do think it's important for them to watch parents too, like. Maybe there isn't a disagreement, but you're like, I don't know what to do about something. And like for you two to collaborate, to cooperate with one another and to like wrestle with making a decision together, I think that that's also healthy for them to see so that like they can see one of the great things about being married is that like you don't have to make every decision on your own. You actually have a partner who thinks differently than you and has a different point of view, has different perspectives, and like watch, like allow them to watch you be like, oh, that is one of my weaknesses, and it's your strength. And like, thank you for saying that because I hadn't thought of it that way, or like to say those things out loud um can help them. I think we don't have any kids that are married, but I think it helps them to like think about what they want in a future spouse.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Um, or at least to like when that arises for them in the future, they're not intimidated by oh my gosh, we don't know what to do every time. Like, shouldn't we, shouldn't we know the answer to everything? We're an adult, we are married, we we pray and discern, doesn't shouldn't we know all the answers? Shouldn't we know what to do? And I think it's good for them to see that there's hard choices and your parents are trying to make them together. I don't just like decide something and tell you about it, and then vice versa, like, hey, I came home and you know, I I applied for another job and they gave it to me, and so actually I'm switching jobs. Like, I that's kind of like a biggie, but um like we don't make disfamily decisions without one another, and I think that's I think there's overlap in disagreement and arguing, and then also that.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, I think it's also good that they get to see they've seen us apologize to each other, yeah. Even in like if it in quick things, like, oh I'm sorry, you said not to do that. I'm really sorry I did that.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot. I'm sorry, I'm sorry I said that. I didn't really mean it that way. I'm sorry, like yeah, to say that. And then we try really hard to just say to not say it's okay or like no big deal, but to say, like, I forgive you, apology accepted, something like I accept your apology or I forgive you, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Not just say it's okay, it doesn't matter because like you want at least in my mind, you want them to get used to people uh validating an apology, right? As opposed to just like brushing it off. Because then like it, you know, oh, you don't have to do that. Like, I want them to be like, no, when you're wrong, you need to apologize for a thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Like you can't just assume it's like and too, like, um, I think another thing that's important is that like I can accept your apology, but my um emotions aren't going to change right when I say I forgive you. So we sometimes might say, and we say it to them, and we say it to each other, like, um, I I accept your apology, but I'm still kind of sad, like I'm sorry, I'm gonna be sad for a little bit, or I'm I'm still kind of um confused, I'm still like whatever kind of feeling you're having, um, and some sort of acknowledgement of that too, like that's understandable, or like I yeah, I get that that was hard. And um because while that is so important, that repair part is so important, um that doesn't mean that it feels better right away.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Um, I also think a couple things not to do. So, like, say you are fighting in front of your kids, even if you're just fighting just the two of you, uh no slamming things, no calling names, no swearing, stomping feet, no stomping feet.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

These are things. No Renzo has tone and I have and I have body reactions.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

No silent treatments, no leaving the house mid-argument. Right? Like things like that are like no avoidance behaviors like that that are super unhealthy.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Or like physical behaviors of slamming, like that's not not healthy. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

No, you're right. You're right. I these are things, those are things that I've had to work on and overcome. And um one thing that I've tried doing because I'm an avoidant person or a cabinet slammer, um, is I just leave the cabinets open. That's that's why that's why we fight. Um is like I might say I'm getting really overwhelmed right now. Can we take a break for five minutes? So instead of me just leaving, turning around, sulking, storming out of the house, it's like I'm about to say things that I don't mean, or like I'm getting overwhelmed. I can't think. Can we just take a break? We will, and you have to come back to it. You can't you can't just bail.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Well, there's been times when you said, like, if I keep going, I'm gonna say things I don't mean, and I'll be like, that's fine. Like you've prepared, like, and you've then been able to go and you say things, but like I'm not like again the way it's- Or yeah, or you have to accept that. Yeah, no, no, which is like I'm not you know, it's not like again, not name-calling and not swearing, and not like bad mouthing, but more of like a lot, at least in our arguments, it's been like, I want to say how I really feel about this, but I'm scared it's gonna hurt your feelings. And then you've been able to, like, no, that's fine, just say it. Cause I think at least in our arguments, I feel it sometimes it can be overwhelming for you to be like, I want to say how I feel, but I have to think about how to say this in a way that isn't doesn't sound like a jerk. I'm like, no, no, it just sounds like a jerk. I do it all the time. So, but like I like again, I I know that I know how we argue, and I like I'd rather argue with you than anybody else. So um I guess I like you. Uh so but so with those parameters though, I think it's important to keep that in mind, of like not. Um, and if you do, like I know I I made a kind of like not really a joke, kind of a disclaimer in the beginning, but like if you do find yourself in a situation that is unsafe, like that is something that you need to get help for.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Absolutely, reach out to people for because or if you feel like you're the one who is performing unsafe behaviors, or you're the one that's like you feel out of control, or maybe you are out of control when the temper rises, or you've you know, you've had too much to drink, or like you you can kind of like notice certain like scenarios that like I'm good until this and then I'm not. Um that like please explore resources and therapies and and yeah, and cough.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

I do think because of the way I was brought up though, like I know we joked about like I like arguing, I'm I'm not I'm fine with confrontation, but like I do think I've like I'll never raise my voice, and like that's just a thing, I'll never raise my voice to you. Like I would never act in a way that's scary. Like I I am in full control when we argue, which is so like if you can't, if you're the man, if the husband and you can't say that, like then even if you're not unsafe, like your temper should be you should never be at a point where you're gonna disrespect your spouse by having a loud temper, by screaming, by doing any of those things. And so I think that should be something that like if you don't know how to argue well, I do think getting help, yeah, therapy through counseling or anything like that, I think is important as well.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Agreed. I like that we had this episode after the um like advocating for your expectations, speaking about your expectations uh instead of breeding resentment. That was our last episode, because this can kind of be the next thing that comes with as you're like learning. Now we're fighting all the time. Well, like as you're learning to express yourself, it might not go smoothly at first because the other person wasn't expecting that at all. Like that feels like it came out of nowhere and they might get defensive, or you might be learning how to express your expectations and you're not articulate yet, or the you know, all of the feelings that you've been holding start to come out. And so you might feel like you're arguing more as you start to go from withholding to it might even feel like over-communicating. That like I think that you'll find a rhythm after doing that. Again, as long as you kind of stick to those parameters of like don't run away, don't slam, don't swear, don't like kind of keeping it in check. But like an argument in and of itself is not a sign of an unhealthy relationship as long as there's that repair at the end, that like there's a resolution, there's a repair. Um, and that's kind of the goal because you want both of your, you want both people in the marriage to be satisfied and thriving and and you're on the same team. You want to act like you're on the same team. You want you love that other person and you like that other person. So you want their best and they should want your best. And so sometimes that doesn't go smoothly, but that's where the rupture and the resolution come in that like that's the goal. Um, so it might not be pretty getting there, but having that end in mind um might be hopefully that's helpful. Yeah. And like just hearing that other people fight and it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Right or Monica fight. We still fight.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Still fight.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

But so I hope this episode was helpful. If it wasn't, tell us and we'll never record one like this again. Um, but if you liked it, give us a five-star review on Apple podcast and or Spotify or both. Do both. If you are a real fan, please do both. Because there's definitely more listeners than we have ratings.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

That is true. And somebody's not clicking that button at the end.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Someone has already checked out. If you're one of those people and you decided to keep listening, please leave us a review. And we will see you at the next episode.